You linked to an article that offered no evidence whatsoever that the Phillies cheated other than that the Marlins said they did. The Astros definitely cheated. That’s not the same thing.
I will say that last October, I was ready to forgive the Astros and move on. As you said, there was a lot of turnover, and it’s just good for baseball to move on and forget about it. And then they beat my Phillies in the World Series, and I will never, ever even consider forgiving them. 😉
I suppose I think that restitution and cooperation is a form of apology: cooperation and remorse instead of denial. Whether a person acknowledges wrongdoing before or after getting caught is virtuous or not for the one who cheats, but it cashes out the same for the ones offended.
I disagree. This was *forced* restitution, and it's only "cooperation" in the sense that they had no other alternative.
It also doesn't "cash out the same". If I have been hurt, I would be much more appreciate of an apology before the person got caught. And that's assuming we take Altuve's apology as genuine.
Additionally, I think an Astros fan only has a small debt to forgive, compared to fans of other teams. Your honor was betrayed, but that's it. (Wins weren't vacated, and the championship was never revoked. If we want to talk about restitution...)
In an extreme analogy: a man kills a woman. His brother is distraught, but eventually decides to forgive him for dishonoring the family name. But the greater debt is owed to the dead woman's family.
I reread the original post, so I realize now you're more specifically talking about forgiving your own team. I'm still not sure the original logic holds up, but I suppose the desire to reconcile is a better motivation for forgiveness.
Nevermind. I did read it. Good stuff--as always.
I was especially moved by the statement that baseball teaches forgiveness.
The game tries to remember. We must rise higher than the stats.
May absolution absolve the Steve Bartman in all of us.
Good post.
You linked to an article that offered no evidence whatsoever that the Phillies cheated other than that the Marlins said they did. The Astros definitely cheated. That’s not the same thing.
I will say that last October, I was ready to forgive the Astros and move on. As you said, there was a lot of turnover, and it’s just good for baseball to move on and forget about it. And then they beat my Phillies in the World Series, and I will never, ever even consider forgiving them. 😉
Yeah, it wasn’t just the Marlins and given Charlie Manuel’s history of allegations, I’m going to say smoke follows a carefully hidden fire.
Ain’t nothing good is gonna come from saying anything negative about Uncle Charlie. I’ve never heard a single allegation about that man.
Final graphs here: it may be good old fashioned shrewd managerial skills, but these things get murky when official complaints are filed: https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/396810-cheat-a-delphia-win-if-you-can-lose-if-you-must-but-always-cheat.amp.html
I’m pretty sure this is the “I know you are, but what am I?” defense. 😂
I do understand and appreciate your attempt to cover for your team. I would absolutely do the same thing if I was a Stros fan.
I'm obviously biased here, but: where was the repentance by the organization or the players? Did they give up their 2017 banner?
I suppose I think that restitution and cooperation is a form of apology: cooperation and remorse instead of denial. Whether a person acknowledges wrongdoing before or after getting caught is virtuous or not for the one who cheats, but it cashes out the same for the ones offended.
I disagree. This was *forced* restitution, and it's only "cooperation" in the sense that they had no other alternative.
It also doesn't "cash out the same". If I have been hurt, I would be much more appreciate of an apology before the person got caught. And that's assuming we take Altuve's apology as genuine.
Additionally, I think an Astros fan only has a small debt to forgive, compared to fans of other teams. Your honor was betrayed, but that's it. (Wins weren't vacated, and the championship was never revoked. If we want to talk about restitution...)
In an extreme analogy: a man kills a woman. His brother is distraught, but eventually decides to forgive him for dishonoring the family name. But the greater debt is owed to the dead woman's family.
I reread the original post, so I realize now you're more specifically talking about forgiving your own team. I'm still not sure the original logic holds up, but I suppose the desire to reconcile is a better motivation for forgiveness.
I think this recent Frontline episode is quite informative as to what is being forgiven if forgiveness is offered.
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/sign-stealing-baseball-history/
Oh, man. I'm not reading this one.
Baseball? More like bore-ball.
HAHAHAHA!